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Unschooling Discussion

   
 
 

 
 
   
 
 
     
 
 
 
UnschoolingDiscussion is a general discussion list.

"Unschooling is a mindful lifestyle which encompasses, at its core, an atmosphere of trust, freedom, joy and deep respect for who the child is. This cannot be lived on a part-time basis. Unschooling sometimes seems so intuitive that people feel they've been doing it all along, not realizing it has a name. Unschooling sometimes seems so counterintuitive that people struggle to understand it, and it can take years to fully accept its worth.


The purpose of this list is to move out of our own comfort zones as we critically examine our beliefs, ideas, and viewpoints about learning, and seek a deeper understanding of unschooling and more respectful relationships with our children."
 
     
     
  Unschooling Discussion...
 
  On unschooling math:

things like calculus, geometry, trigonometry and possibly algebra. I have been thinking about it ever since, and I can't discover (in my own mind) a way to learn these things "naturally" or at the very least without textbooks. Am I just not thinking far enough outside the box? Are there ways to come across learning opportunities in these higher math areas that don't require a more "formal" type of tool?

A lot of basic trig gets used in carpentry—my partner uses it all the time, although he's a high-school dropout, never took a day of trig and couldn't tell you the difference between a sine and a tangent. He occasionally looks things up in books about carpentry, or asks another carpenter but mostly just works things out on his own.

Geometry and algebra... gosh I use them so often, it's hard to think of an example. I don't mean proofs or the quadratic equation, but cooking, sewing, knitting, basic home maintenance involve the priciples of algebra and geometry pretty regularly&madash;maybe you're having trouble thinking "outside the box" in terms of what math is. One of the things school and textbooks do is confine math to numbers when its really about relationships and problem-solving.

Last weekend I rearranged my living/dining-room; a process which included adding a couch and two more chairs to the table. It was a pretty complex geometry problem. I did a lot of measuring and critically examining the shape of the space (my house is tiny) to get everything to fit and be usable—and have the door still open. It's the sort of thing that seems so normal that one wouldn't necessarily call it "Geometry"—no, surely that's too grand a term for rearranging furniture! But the concepts and thinking involved were exactly that.

—Meredith



On labels:

I probably won’t read the article. A couple of months ago doing some personal research, when it happened to be Mental Health Month or some such, I read quite a lot of distressing articles about child mental health, including the horrendous side effects of some medications that could hardly be better than the supposed disease. I got enough sadness about the state of things from that reading.

What bothers me is that these kinds of simplistic check lists make it too easy for laymen (school teachers, school nurses, school guidance counselors with limited qualifications) to jump to making diagnoses of what can be genuine and serious conditions. It can start looking like almost every child has some mental illness. What do “normal” or “healthy” children then look like to these people?

We know what normal, healthy children look like because we live with a bunch of them in all their temperamental glory.

Lists like this can say more about the wider culture’s attitude towards children as inherently flawed or broken and needing to be molded or repaired, than about some kind of emergency in pediatric mental health.

Maybe there is an emergency in mental health—adults who are angry, controlling and acting out their feelings of powerlessness. (See Alice Miller’s writings).

Of all the symptomatic behaviors on this list, the one that would have me worried is the last:

Acts spiteful or vindictive at least once during the last three months

This would certainly suggest to me a child who was feeling so powerless and resentful that they were starting to engage in behaviors that were beyond merely hard for an adult to cope with or be acceptant of. This could plausibly lead the child into dangerous situation with other children. Supposedly a red flag for future violent behavior connected to psychotic disorders is cruelty to animals. I guess it’s ok to laugh at phrases like, “Don’t get mad, get even” when it is some movie hero, but not when it is a kid.

Yet look at how subjective this language is. Both descriptors require a value judgment and assumptions about the enactor’s motives. One person’s “spiteful” is another person’s justifiably angry, one person’s “vindictive” is another person’s utterly frustrated or even merely experimenting.

In our life any of these behaviors from Jayn would be signals of need. Or in my case, PMS—but then I’m not a child so I’m allowed (by society) to be pissed sometimes.

—Robyn




Here is a more detailed "screening" for ODD—a child is considered to have ODD if he/she exhibits four or more of the following:
  • Loses temper at least twice a week
  • Argues with adults at least twice a week
  • Actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules at least twice a week
  • Deliberately annoys people at least four times a week
  • Blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior at least once during the last three months
  • Is touchy or easily annoyed by others at least twice a week
  • Is angry and resentful at least four times per week
  • Acts spiteful or vindictive at least once during the last three months


At 13, dd could have easily been diagnosed with this or any other of a number of "disorders." When she wasn't actively arguing with her teachers and defying school rules, she was skipping school and getting into trouble with the law. At home we were constantly fighting because of my attempts to get her to conform (do homework, etc). The only counsellor she saw wanted to put her on anti-depressants. Instead I chose unschooling—a recent discovery I'd made thanks to my own personal growth and incessant curiosity (All hail the internet!). The change in dd was dramatic. Two years later I find myself sharing a house with an honest, thoughtful, kind, considerate, generous, warm, loving, happy 15 year old who helps out whenever I ask and has recently begun volunteer work with the Good Samaritans. The days of opposition and defiance are long, long gone. I look back and shudder at what our choice could have been.

Thank you.. all you unschooling "missionaries"... for giving my daughter back to herself. I know I could never thank you enough for the gift you've given us all.
—Col



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